[NTLK] Last attempt at ROMs for Einstein, I need your help

[Marisa Giancarla]

I don't know about getting the source to NewtonOS, but as they 
officially released the classic Mac's ROM files the Newton ROM is not 
too far of a stretch, I hope...


Marisa

On 8/29/23 12:50, Matthias Melcher wrote:
> Thank you very much, David and Allan, for this great summary of the issues. My only addition: they probably simply don't care.
>
> There are two goals:
>
> First goal is getting the permission to make the ROM binary part of Einstein. It's purely educational in purpose. I doubt that Einstein would deminish a single sale in any modern product or software.
>
> The second goal, getting the source code of NewtonOS, seems unreachable. The release of the Lisa code is amazing in itself, but NewtonOS with its HWR may contain binaries where Apple doesn't own or even have access to the source code. Again, this would be highly educational, as NewtonOS is a minimal and ingenious 32 bit OS, but it has not much real life application in the 2023 world of 64 bit computing. Even with the source code, we could not just recompile the code and run NewtonOS as an app. We could however find out more about the hardware that we are emulating in Einstein.
>
> Again, I am rambling. Sorry about that.
>
> Maybe contacting CHM and figuring out how they did it would be a great first step?
>
>> On 27. Aug 2023, at 23:26, David Arnold <davida at pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> In my understanding of such matters, the main roadblock ends up being legal: even if there is executive willingness to make something available, there is both the cost (time) and practical ability to determine whether some software can be made available to copy/distribute at no cost.
>>
>> Legal folks need to determine to their satisfaction that there’s no third-party obligations to be met. The sort of thing that immediately springs to mind is the cursive handwriting recognizer from Paragraph: Apple potentially had/has a royalty obligation to pay a per-copy license fee for it.  Often, the parties to such agreements are long since defunct or the ownership of specific products is buried under layers of corporate acquisitions: it can be impossible to determine who to even pay, even if you know what is included in the ROM.
>>
>> Such ambiguities are legal timebombs: a lawsuit waiting to happen years later when someone desperate for money figures out that they own it (maybe), and Apple has been giving it away — jackpot!   Apple legal will never sign off on a release with this kind of thing unresolved.
>>
>> Given the elapsed time, the documentation chaos that likely occurred with the Newton Inc spin-off and subsequent reabsorption, and the frankly limited upside for Apple even if it were possible to identify and sort out all the legalities, I don’t hold much hope that such a release would be possible.
>>
>> All that said, if someone wants to draft a letter, I’d be happy to help with editing and refining the message (and sign it, of course).
>>
>> Apologies for the pessimism,
>
>
>> On 28. Aug 2023, at 02:01, Alan Grassia <alan.grassia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Newton Friends,
>>
>> It is an interesting question as to whether or not Apple would release the Newton (an eMate) ROMs or the Newton OS source code.
>>
>> I was trying to think of and example of Apple releasing the ROMs, OS, or application source code to the public.   The one example that I came up with was the release of the Lisa OS Software via the Computer History Museum (CHM).
>>
>> CHM’s Hansen Hsu has a 1/19/2023 curatorial insights blog post on the subject at:
>> https://computerhistory.org/blog/the-lisa-apples-most-influential-failure/
>>
>> The Apple Lisa software download page lists the Apple Academic License Agreement for Lisa OS Software v3.1 restrictions that one may not "redistribute, publish, sublicense, sell, rent or transfer the Apple Software.”  The Lisa OS software download page, including the agreement, can be found at:
>> https://info.computerhistory.org/apple-lisa-code
>>
>> Back in 2010, CHM, in partnership with Apple, released the MacPaint and QuickDraw source code (again, for non-commercial use.)
>> https://computerhistory.org/blog/macpaint-and-quickdraw-source-code/
>>
>> One possible approach to having a request for Newton ROMs or software released to the public could be to approach CHM to see if they could petition Apple for a release as part of their Art of Code program.
>>
>> To David’s point, there are likely many sticky legal issues at hand that would need review and sign-off.  Maybe a non-commerical use license could get around some of them.
>>
>> It would be nice getting the source to the Newton ROMs, but it seems like we’re still going to have to rely on pulling the software off ROM chips from devices we purchased first or second-hand.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alan Grassia
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