[NTLK] eMate Hinge Repair

Fri Mar 19 09:23:37 PDT 2021

I’m very glad I’m getting my “new” eMate repaired, courtesy of Doug P. in NV.  Don’t know if he would want to do any more, and not sure what he would charge, but it’s nice to know we can get this kind of help right in the US. Shipping to and from EU would be kind of costly and I don’t expect you talented people to be doing this for nothing!

Now, back to the software packages, what would be some of the better ones to use on my eMate? Also, can someone explain what NPDS and is it something I might want to try? 

Oh, and I’m eagerly awaiting my new Bluetooth module being built by Pawel. That box looks really slick and the simple way of connecting to and iMac is going to be great!

That’s to all those willing to work on this “ancient” technology!

Oh, now I need to write a new note on my Mobiscribe Origin!  Nothing wrong with using 20 year old tech with the new modern stuff!

Jim Chapman
Guardsix6 at gmail.com <mailto:guardsix6 at gmail.com>

> On Mar 19, 2021, at 12:44 AM, newtontalk-request at newtontalk.net wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: What do you consider essential packages for eMate?
>      (Forrest Buffenmyer)
>   2. eMate spring repair (DXH)
>   3. Re: eMate spring repair (Forrest)
>   4. Re: What do you consider essential packages for eMate? (Forrest)
>   5. Re: What do you consider essential packages for eMate?
>      (Vladislav Korotnev)
>   6. David Humphreys has shared a folder with you using Dropbox (DXH)
>   7. Re: David Humphreys has shared a folder with you using
>      Dropbox (Alan Grassia)
>   8. Re: David Humphreys has shared a folder with you using
>      Dropbox (Sonny Hung)
>   9. Sources (DXH)
>  10. Re: What do you consider essential packages for eMate?
>      (Chris Rupnik)
>  11. Re: The piMate 300 (DXH)
>  12. Re: David Humphreys has shared a folder with you using
>      Dropbox (Grant Hutchinson)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 14:43:39 -0700
> From: Forrest Buffenmyer <newton_phoenix at mindspring.com>
> To: newtontalk at newtontalk.net
> Subject: Re: [NTLK] What do you consider essential packages for eMate?
> Message-ID: <C4ADEBB6-6B29-447F-908B-FEE40E65F505 at mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> Chris and Andre:
> 
> You need to get the Hinge Repair done, and very soon. In fact, I would STRONGLY urge NOT USING the eMate until it is completed.
> 
> Referring to a post last week?I just got an eMate from eBay for only $55! It was untested, as the seller did not have a power supply to boot it up. Before buying I carefully zoomed in on the pictures of both the exterior and interior?nearly flawless. Still, looks only count for so much, if it doesn?t work it?s a pretty paperweight, right?
> 
> I gambled and made the purchase. When it arrived I connected it to a Newton power supply?it started right up, no marks on the screen, darned near perfection!
> 
> I thought to myself, ?Well, I can enjoy this for a little while, right, before I tear it down for the Hinge Repair??
> 
> ?NOT SO FAST, MY FRIEND!? Wisely I decided against that, and disassembled it a few days ago, almost immediately after receiving it. IT?S A GOOD THING I DID. There was the equivalent of a ticking time bomb inside. One of the springs had worked itself loose and would soon, I am certain, pierce the ribbon cable (I mean, it was sitting right there against it.) I likely caught it just in time. After about 2 hours of work?taking my time?both my hinge repairs are done, and will not rear its ugly head again.
> 
> Recall that these are 20+ year old machines. That grease is getting stiffer and stiffer, which causes (and forces) the spring ends to work themselves loose. I would not trust one EVEN SEALED IN AN UNOPENED BOX to not soon work itself loose. (It?s also noteworthy that only the LEFT spring threatens the display cable?but why not do both springs?)
> 
> For me at least, it was EXTRAORDINARILY simple. There are eMate disassembly instructions on Frank?s site, https://www.pda-soft.de/ , as well as Joel Sciamma?s excellent Inventor?s Emporium site: http://www.inventors-emporium.co.uk/pages/newton-emate-hinge.html . (The latter is also available through Frank?s site.
> 
> I read through Joel?s instructions on how to repair a damaged ribbon cable. UUUUGGGHHHH. I?ve done repairs like that before many times and would NOT want to attempt any more, especially when such repair can be avoided with some easy preventative maintenance.
> 
> I don?t which to step on anyone?s toes, here, but for anyone in the US who does not want to ship their eMate off to Europe so Frank could fix it?I might be persuaded to complete the spring repair for you. I live in Arizona, and you would?as Frank does?be charged for only the shipping cost, and perhaps a small fee for time and expenses: probably less than $10 USD.
> 
> I WOULD STILL, IF POSSIBLE, URGE that you send it to Frank (his limited time permitting), as he is truly the Edward Scissorhands of Newton/eMate repair. And, I mean that in the most complimentary way possible.
> 
> BUT?please, GET IT DONE. Somehow. REALLY.
> 
> Mahalo,
> Forrest
> 
> Sent from my iPad Pro 9.7"
> 
>> On Mar 18, 2021, at 8:57 AM, Pawel Piotrowski <newton at indigi.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> 
>>> On 18 Mar 2021, at 15:38, Chris Rupnik <chris.rupnik at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Perhaps a working zoom session could be held with someone who has
>>> completed it previously and we could all do it at the same time? A little
>>> coaching / hand holding might be good?
>> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> This is great idea! W ill be happy to join to that session!
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Pawel
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> http://newtontalk.net
>> http://twitter.com/newtontalk
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 18:10:10 -0400
> From: DXH <dxh at woh.rr.com>
> To: newtontalk at newtontalk.net
> Subject: [NTLK] eMate spring repair
> Message-ID: <B7EBDC34-188E-453A-BF01-6B95743C58E9 at woh.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> I saw some traffic on this subject so I thought I would chime in.
> 
> The issue with the spring is very real and should be addressed as soon as possible. Due to the age of the units, the drying out of the lubricant and the number of cycles the hinge will go through will pretty much guarantee that there will be an ?incident? eventually.
> 
> The addition of a flat washer mitigates the problem but doesn?t actually cure it. To be sure, it will take much more time to travel enough distance to pop out and that may be all that is needed to last until EOL for the unit but, the root cause of the problem is that it is two springs in the first place. The correct solution is to swap the existing springs for a single spring that loops over the retaining screw instead of just laying on both sides. That will solve the problem once and for all.
> 
> It is fairly easy to make a replacement spring. I am putting together a set of instructions on how to do it and will make them available when I have completed them. This will just be instructions to make the spring. You will still have to take everything apart as per Franks instructions. 
> 
> Instructions to follow...
> 
> PCBman
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 15:23:39 -0700
> From: Forrest <newton_phoenix at mindspring.com>
> To: newtontalk at newtontalk.net
> Subject: Re: [NTLK] eMate spring repair
> Message-ID: <3D051AAF-D054-41F5-A355-9488324CFCE8 at mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Interesting theory, David, using one solid spring. I will be most curious to see what you have come up with.
> 
> Mahalo,
> Forrest
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile iPhone 11
> 
>> On Mar 18, 2021, at 3:10 PM, DXH <dxh at woh.rr.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I saw some traffic on this subject so I thought I would chime in.
>> 
>> The issue with the spring is very real and should be addressed as soon as possible. Due to the age of the units, the drying out of the lubricant and the number of cycles the hinge will go through will pretty much guarantee that there will be an ?incident? eventually.
>> 
>> The addition of a flat washer mitigates the problem but doesn?t actually cure it. To be sure, it will take much more time to travel enough distance to pop out and that may be all that is needed to last until EOL for the unit but, the root cause of the problem is that it is two springs in the first place. The correct solution is to swap the existing springs for a single spring that loops over the retaining screw instead of just laying on both sides. That will solve the problem once and for all.
>> 
>> It is fairly easy to make a replacement spring. I am putting together a set of instructions on how to do it and will make them available when I have completed them. This will just be instructions to make the spring. You will still have to take everything apart as per Franks instructions. 
>> 
>> Instructions to follow...
>> 
>> PCBman
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> http://newtontalk.net
>> http://twitter.com/newtontalk
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 16:21:41 -0700
> From: Forrest <newton_phoenix at mindspring.com>
> To: newtontalk at newtontalk.net
> Subject: Re: [NTLK] What do you consider essential packages for eMate?
> Message-ID: <C26C90D0-C6E9-4B9F-940F-CB6EB07E2217 at mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> For some reason?likely because I went on and on ;-) ?the end of my message got cut off. Here it is:
> 
> I don?t which to step on anyone?s toes, here, but for anyone in the US who does not want to ship their eMate off to Europe so Frank could fix it?I might be persuaded to complete the spring repair for you. I live in Arizona, and you would?as Frank does?be charged for only the shipping cost, and perhaps a small fee for time and expenses: probably less than $10 USD.
> 
> I WOULD STILL, IF POSSIBLE, URGE that you send it to Frank (his limited time permitting), as he is truly the Edward Scissorhands of Newton/eMate repair. And, I mean that in the most complimentary way possible.
> 
> BUT?please, GET IT DONE. Somehow. REALLY.
> Mahalo,
> Forrest
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile iPhone 11
> 
>> On Mar 18, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Forrest Buffenmyer <newton_phoenix at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Chris and Andre:
>> 
>> You need to get the Hinge Repair done, and very soon. In fact, I would STRONGLY urge NOT USING the eMate until it is completed.
>> 
>> Referring to a post last week?I just got an eMate from eBay for only $55! It was untested, as the seller did not have a power supply to boot it up. Before buying I carefully zoomed in on the pictures of both the exterior and interior?nearly flawless. Still, looks only count for so much, if it doesn?t work it?s a pretty paperweight, right?
>> 
>> I gambled and made the purchase. When it arrived I connected it to a Newton power supply?it started right up, no marks on the screen, darned near perfection!
>> 
>> I thought to myself, ?Well, I can enjoy this for a little while, right, before I tear it down for the Hinge Repair??
>> 
>> ?NOT SO FAST, MY FRIEND!? Wisely I decided against that, and disassembled it a few days ago, almost immediately after receiving it. IT?S A GOOD THING I DID. There was the equivalent of a ticking time bomb inside. One of the springs had worked itself loose and would soon, I am certain, pierce the ribbon cable (I mean, it was sitting right there against it.) I likely caught it just in time. After about 2 hours of work?taking my time?both my hinge repairs are done, and will not rear its ugly head again.
>> 
>> Recall that these are 20+ year old machines. That grease is getting stiffer and stiffer, which causes (and forces) the spring ends to work themselves loose. I would not trust one EVEN SEALED IN AN UNOPENED BOX to not soon work itself loose. (It?s also noteworthy that only the LEFT spring threatens the display cable?but why not do both springs?)
>> 
>> For me at least, it was EXTRAORDINARILY simple. There are eMate disassembly instructions on Frank?s site, https://www.pda-soft.de/ , as well as Joel Sciamma?s excellent Inventor?s Emporium site: http://www.inventors-emporium.co.uk/pages/newton-emate-hinge.html . (The latter is also available through Frank?s site.
>> 
>> I read through Joel?s instructions on how to repair a damaged ribbon cable. UUUUGGGHHHH. I?ve done repairs like that before many times and would NOT want to attempt any more, especially when such repair can be avoided with some easy preventative maintenance.
>> 
>> I don?t which to step on anyone?s toes,
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 08:58:21 +0900
> From: Vladislav Korotnev <vladkorotnev at gmail.com>
> To: newtontalk at newtontalk.net
> Subject: Re: [NTLK] What do you consider essential packages for eMate?
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAAbjCmtETHBGhikXcxYgTN_2q8gV0Ws5fVAXzJMdmKr23kssKA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Speaking of ebay gambles, this reminds me how I went to buy my first
> Newton, that was an eMate, from some guy in Canada.
> 
> Few years later I learned about the hinge problem, went ahead to
> disassemble it and what do you know ? it's already been fixed! And
> that wasn't even mentioned in the listing, they were just putting up a
> bunch of emates with adapters for sale.
> 
> I wonder if that guy might be on the list with us? If so, thank you
> very much for your help! :-)
> 
> -- 
> // Ak.R.
> 
> iOS/Mac/Windows & Web developer
> Vaporwave/ambient producer, sound/video engineer
> 
> Genjitsu Gadget Lab Member 001
> http://genjit.su
> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fgenjit.su&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNE8x1vuqw3E4Hjfe9lA59Q23-z36Q>
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:19:36 -0400
> From: DXH <dxh at woh.rr.com>
> To: newtontalk at newtontalk.net
> Subject: [NTLK] David Humphreys has shared a folder with you using
> 	Dropbox
> Message-ID: <A3B4569C-2DB0-47AA-BE62-D45D8119F34D at woh.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> 
> Here?s a link to ?Spring? in my Dropbox:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/15hglyr6pbaynly/AABzeibgH34i0xVypLF_q138a?dl=0
> 
> PCBman
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:41:38 -0400
> From: Alan Grassia <alan.grassia at gmail.com>
> To: Newton Talk <newtontalk at newtontalk.net>
> Subject: Re: [NTLK] David Humphreys has shared a folder with you using
> 	Dropbox
> Message-ID: <9636DC43-B0AA-4B4C-AC97-AFCC42324C6D at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Thanks, PCBman.  I was just reading this thread and wondering what the heck the "spring issue" actually was.  Your message was the third one I read.  Pictures really are worth a thousand words.  Downloaded your slides and filed away for the day when I am able to pick up an eMate 300.
> 
> Cheers,
> Alan
> 
> ----
> MP2000, MP2100
> 
> ?On 3/18/21, 8:19 PM, "NewtonTalk on behalf of DXH" <newtontalk-bounces at newtontalk.net on behalf of dxh at woh.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>    Here?s a link to ?Spring? in my Dropbox:
> 
>    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/15hglyr6pbaynly/AABzeibgH34i0xVypLF_q138a?dl=0
> 
>    PCBman
> 
>    Sent from my iPad
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>    http://newtontalk.net
>    http://twitter.com/newtontalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 21:11:43 -0400
> From: Sonny Hung <sonnyhung at gmail.com>
> To: NTLK <newtontalk at newtontalk.net>
> Subject: Re: [NTLK] David Humphreys has shared a folder with you using
> 	Dropbox
> Message-ID:
> 	<CA+dXLZR8-6hr96H0COkpgRAr+q97wwTfSrGzzoM5So4oJZhwqA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> David, what example of wire shears do you have pictured there?
> Do you have any suggestions from HomeDepot or Harbor Freight?
> I might give this a go with my eMates when I have more time.
> 
> God bless,
> 
> Sonny Hung
> the Hung Family
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 8:19 PM DXH <dxh at woh.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Here?s a link to ?Spring? in my Dropbox:
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 22:08:44 -0400
> From: DXH <dxh at woh.rr.com>
> To: newtontalk at newtontalk.net
> Subject: [NTLK] Sources
> Message-ID: <DF35615F-BAE5-4315-BA79-B03514C5FADC at woh.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> I was asked about the wire shears for the eMate spring repair. 
> 
> Search on Amazon for :
> 
> Cutter: Xuron 2193 wire shear
> 
> Wire: Precision brand 039-21045 music wire
> 
> PCBman
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 22:19:01 -0400
> From: Chris Rupnik <chris.rupnik at gmail.com>
> To: newtontalk at newtontalk.net
> Subject: Re: [NTLK] What do you consider essential packages for eMate?
> Message-ID: <989CCF12-32DE-4F36-92BD-F7641A04432F at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi
> It would be beneficial to me if Forrest and Frank possibly be willing to act as the guides in a zoom meeting to guide fellow emate-ties along the path to such a repair? We could record the session and post it later for others to follow at a later date?
> 
> Obviously the session would be around your schedules 
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Mar 18, 2021, at 7:21 PM, Forrest <newton_phoenix at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> 
>> For some reason?likely because I went on and on ;-) ?the end of my message got cut off. Here it is:
>> 
>> I don?t which to step on anyone?s toes, here, but for anyone in the US who does not want to ship their eMate off to Europe so Frank could fix it?I might be persuaded to complete the spring repair for you. I live in Arizona, and you would?as Frank does?be charged for only the shipping cost, and perhaps a small fee for time and expenses: probably less than $10 USD.
>> 
>> I WOULD STILL, IF POSSIBLE, URGE that you send it to Frank (his limited time permitting), as he is truly the Edward Scissorhands of Newton/eMate repair. And, I mean that in the most complimentary way possible.
>> 
>> BUT?please, GET IT DONE. Somehow. REALLY.
>> Mahalo,
>> Forrest
>> 
>> Sent from my T-Mobile iPhone 11
>> 
>>> On Mar 18, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Forrest Buffenmyer <newton_phoenix at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Chris and Andre:
>>> 
>>> You need to get the Hinge Repair done, and very soon. In fact, I would STRONGLY urge NOT USING the eMate until it is completed.
>>> 
>>> Referring to a post last week?I just got an eMate from eBay for only $55! It was untested, as the seller did not have a power supply to boot it up. Before buying I carefully zoomed in on the pictures of both the exterior and interior?nearly flawless. Still, looks only count for so much, if it doesn?t work it?s a pretty paperweight, right?
>>> 
>>> I gambled and made the purchase. When it arrived I connected it to a Newton power supply?it started right up, no marks on the screen, darned near perfection!
>>> 
>>> I thought to myself, ?Well, I can enjoy this for a little while, right, before I tear it down for the Hinge Repair??
>>> 
>>> ?NOT SO FAST, MY FRIEND!? Wisely I decided against that, and disassembled it a few days ago, almost immediately after receiving it. IT?S A GOOD THING I DID. There was the equivalent of a ticking time bomb inside. One of the springs had worked itself loose and would soon, I am certain, pierce the ribbon cable (I mean, it was sitting right there against it.) I likely caught it just in time. After about 2 hours of work?taking my time?both my hinge repairs are done, and will not rear its ugly head again.
>>> 
>>> Recall that these are 20+ year old machines. That grease is getting stiffer and stiffer, which causes (and forces) the spring ends to work themselves loose. I would not trust one EVEN SEALED IN AN UNOPENED BOX to not soon work itself loose. (It?s also noteworthy that only the LEFT spring threatens the display cable?but why not do both springs?)
>>> 
>>> For me at least, it was EXTRAORDINARILY simple. There are eMate disassembly instructions on Frank?s site, https://www.pda-soft.de/ , as well as Joel Sciamma?s excellent Inventor?s Emporium site: http://www.inventors-emporium.co.uk/pages/newton-emate-hinge.html . (The latter is also available through Frank?s site.
>>> 
>>> I read through Joel?s instructions on how to repair a damaged ribbon cable. UUUUGGGHHHH. I?ve done repairs like that before many times and would NOT want to attempt any more, especially when such repair can be avoided with some easy preventative maintenance.
>>> 
>>> I don?t which to step on anyone?s toes,
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> http://newtontalk.net
>> http://twitter.com/newtontalk
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 22:42:42 -0400
> From: DXH <dxh at woh.rr.com>
> To: newtontalk at newtontalk.net
> Subject: Re: [NTLK] The piMate 300
> Message-ID: <9DA7CB1C-7EC4-445F-A159-B78FB56DD5D1 at woh.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> In answer to your question, yes, it is possible to drive an eMate or Newton LCD from the Rpi.
> Caveat: you need to provide ~24V for lcd drive.
> 
> PCBman
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Mar 16, 2021, at 7:28 PM, Iain Billington <iain at mosphere.net> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Yikes!
>> Does anyone know if it?s possible to drive the eMate or a Newton LCD display directly from a Raspberry Pi?
>> I?m pretty sure I could figure out how to conver the eMate keyboard into a USB or Bluetooth HID decide. 
>> It would be nice to have a note destructive ways to upgrade and revert back if desired. 
>> I?ve been thinking too about using the Pi or whatever modern history device to do all the heavy lifting, using its WiFi and proxying requests to the Newton browser as an image with this project:
>> https://github.com/tenox7/wrp
>> I think we may have talked about it before last year. 
>> 
>> Iain
>> 
>>> On 17/03/2021, at 11:14 AM, Fritz Toch via NewtonTalk <newtontalk at newtontalk.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Yes, we can all agree that this is a travesty, but at the same time it got me thinking about repurposing *actually* dead hardware and perhaps running Einstein on it? https://deninet.com/creation/2020/12/06/pimate-300 <https://deninet.com/creation/2020/12/06/pimate-300>
>>> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> http://newtontalk.net
>>> http://twitter.com/newtontalk
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> http://newtontalk.net
>> http://twitter.com/newtontalk
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 23:44:53 -0600
> From: Grant Hutchinson <grant at splorp.com>
> To: NewtonTalk List <newtontalk at newtontalk.net>
> Subject: Re: [NTLK] David Humphreys has shared a folder with you using
> 	Dropbox
> Message-ID: <C282ED02-4D56-4624-97E3-2D47106EAD99 at splorp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> 
>> On Mar 18, 2021, at 6:41 PM, Alan Grassia <alan.grassia at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, PCBman.  I was just reading this thread and wondering what the heck the "spring issue" actually was.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> David, your wonderful description and illustration of how to fix the ?spring problem? compelled me to add that term to the Newton Glossary.
> 
> https://newtonglossary.com/terms/spring-issue
> 
> g.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Grant Hutchinson
> NewtonTalk List Dad & Interweb Custodian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> http://newtontalk.net/
> http://twitter.com/newtontalk
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of NewtonTalk Digest, Vol 87, Issue 28
> ******************************************